Tuesday, March 13, 2007

Who should be the judge of moral character?(edited)

As reported on
- Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Marine General Peter Pace proclaimed on Monday

"I believe homosexual acts between two individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts. I do not believe the United States is well served by a policy that says it is OK to be immoral in any way. As an individual, I would not want [acceptance of gay behavior] to be our policy, just like I would not want it to be our policy that if we were to find out that so-and-so was sleeping with somebody else's wife, that we would just look the other way, which we do not. We prosecute that kind of immoral behavior."

Who is he to decide what is moral and immoral? What gives him the right to proclaim that homosexuality should be a prosecutable offense?

Update: I have edited some of my earlier comments b/c I realized that they were harsh and judgemental. It didn't serve my point as pointed out by a bloggie friend.


Rhianna said...

Homosexuality is illegal according to the UCMJ. And what makes you right to judge him wrong because of his moral differences from you?

We all make moral calls. As long as they bleed red and swear to uphold and defend the Constitution, I've got no issues with anyone serving our country. DADT is the worst bit of claptrap forced down the throats of the US military in quite some time. But still, on principle, I have to defend his right to say stupid shit, and have morals I don't agree with.

Oh, and for the record, there is a great schism between the ranks and the pentagon. There has been for quite some time on homosexuals and women in combat.

If there's any gay man (or woman) you DON'T wanna f*ck with, it's a Marine. Imagine havin' to hide in the Corps. They could lay a beat down like no body else, and then decorate your house for you, and give you a make-over. ;) You like olive green, right?

Ellie said...

I guess what gives me the right to judge Rhianna, is the same as what gives him the right. My point what, who is he to decide what is moral and immoral and then go so far as to say you should prosecute someone for being gay. You might know more about military life ... I do not know what UCMJ is brief for...but the statement strayed,I think, far from the rhelm of the military.
I don't know how I feel about gays in the military. I think all should be able to fight for their country, but I can't speak for those men that have to live with other gay men...same as for women.
BUT I do know that my brother is gay and it pisses me off when people judge his moral character and him as a person b/c of his sexual preference. It upsets me greatly, mainly because he is such a brilliant, yet compassionate young man.

Ellie said...

If you also remember, I have a brother that is a Marine as well.

e.Craig said...

The Uniform Code Of Military Justice (UCMJ) is law as far as the military is concerned. I don't recall how it dealt with homosexuality; perhaps it's changed in the last 40 years. Just as its title states, it is a uniform code and all military personnel fall under its jurisdiction equally. So, notwithstanding my personal opinion, it provides a level playing field within the military environment.

All military personnel are expected to adhere to certain moral standards. Adherence to those standards is achievable regardless of a person's sexual orientation. Therefore I believe that the military should focus on demanding those standards be kept without regard to one's sexual preference.

Nikky said...

I'm going to recommend that my brother Steven and his fiance Mark send this guy a wedding invitation...
Would not make a bit of difference to this closed minded individual, but it would be funny to see a vein pop out on his forehead as he wonders "WHY are these immoral homos inviting me to their "wedding"???"

Rhianna said...

I didn't mean to make you censor yourself. I'm sorry. I'm also not supporting what Gen. Pace had to say, just his right to say it.

UCMJ - Uniform Code of Military Justice. It's the "law" of the military. Adultery, bad checks, rape, sodomy (homosexuality hangs on that one), etc. are deemed conduct unbecoming a military member. They're slowly trying to change it - it's finally legal to have more than missionary sex between consenting adult opposite-sex partners. Yes, before, everything BUT missionary was illegal. That document is in dire need of change. UCMJ via Wiki.

I don't judge his moral charecter outside of he's a good man. My morals are not someone else's, and I have no desire to see them foisted onto someone else, unlike certain peoples in the news of late. It takes a special kind to take on the job of being paid crap, treated like shit until you're needed, spending untold amounts of time away from hearth and home, to be shoved onto the shelf and your honor abused until you're 'needed' again. The fact he's a Marine earns him more respect, if only because of the hardships Marines face the sister services don't.

I don't support or agree with what Gen. Pace said, though I do have to support his right to say it - and his right to get called down on it. I'm not sure I explained myself well on that in my first comment.

In my moral opinion, if you're willing to serve the nation, and you swear to "Uphold and Defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic" that's good enough for me. I personally have no issues with gays serving openly in the military - Sparta and Rome were great powers that had no such exlusivity rulings such as we do. DADT (Don't Ask, Don't Tell) prohibits serving openly, which I find to be extremely discriminitory based purely on the fact of who you choose to love.

It may yet be decades before we get women in command of combat units and open homosexuality in the military. Those at the top are out of touch with the troops, but they have to leave the ranks before more open-minded men and women can assume their leadership roles. I wish it would happen today, but I'm content to wait it out ... when I wanted to join they forbid female jet pilots, and now we have women bombers. Things are changing, for the better, even if the slowness of it drives me batty, I can look back and see the improvements. I see better days ahead still, a bright dawn of total equality in the military. As such, I'm content to wait out the night...

Ellie said...

QUOTE RHIANNA: prohibits serving openly, which I find to be extremely discriminitory based purely on the fact of who you choose to love.

Rhianna, that is another point. I think the General has let the point of Love escape him

Ellie said...

Nikky... I think you should send it! That would be a hoot!

Ecraig...if I wasn't married, I think I'd love you!

Nicole said...

YIKES Ellie...I hate to say it but when people in your country make comments like these (Peter Pace) I think that ties into the world's negative perspective for your country, which is sad.

I also , personally think that being gay is so much more then what your "sexual preference" is.

Nikky, is your brother getting married in the US? That is good to hear, that gives me hope that your country is progressing.

Ellie said...

Nic...just b/c they are getting married doesn't mean our country will recognize the marriage. Gays are not given the same rights as straigt married couples. I wish the only thing our country was fighting over was the right to call it marriage or cival union. It would be nice. My brother could find love and not be insurance gouged b/c of his preference.

Sara said...

judging people should be immoral too! make him go to jail for that!