Friday, December 08, 2006

Let's get political!

Click the pic for a larger view

UPDATE 12/10 heard on the news today President Bush stated the following "If we were to fail, it would be b/c we gave up!"
I liked that statement

In today's news I read the following:

Oregon senator makes emotional break with Bush over Iraq war

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Republican Sen. Gordon Smith of Oregon made a dramatic break with President Bush on the Iraq war Thursday night, telling colleagues in an emotional speech on the Senate floor that he can no longer support a "lamentable" U.S. policy that has "failed."
Smith, a moderate who until now has been a supporter of the war, said he was at "the end of my rope when it comes to supporting a policy that has our soldiers patrolling the same streets in the same way, being blown up by the same bombs, day after day."
"That is absurd," Smith said. "It may even be criminal." Smith said while he doesn't believe Bush intentionally lied to get the United States into the war, he now thinks that "we have paid a price in blood and treasure that is beyond calculation" for a war waged due to bad intelligence. (Posted 10:05 p.m.)

While there are Iraq and Bush supporters, I feel that the sentiment through out America leans towards Anti Bush and Anti Iraq..pull our troops out! But I wonder, would that be a mistake? The first time we entered Iraq we pulled out way to early and left shambles( 11.5 months), this time would it be even more detrimental to do so. However, the war in Iraq officially began March 30, 2003. That is a long time. But then again, you have to consider this fact, Vietam lasted 8 years, Afganistan 5 yrs and counting, World War II 3 yrs 8mos, Korean war 3 yrs. So is time what it takes to get the job done? For the family members at home...It's a leader that gets the job done...for the troops over's a leader that gets the job done... and as we can see in the above article, for the's a leader that gets the job done!

Thoughts please, especially outsider veiws from other countries.


RWA in the comments section stated "You do not hear the stories about the groups of people who come running to them, thanking them for getting them out from under Saddam's dictatorship." - Of course not...that would make for boring news..

So I post this picture for you that my brother took while in Iraq!

Cute little kid waving to the soldiers...huh!


Joanne (True Blue) said...

I had a tried to post a comment, but I think I lost it in cyberspace.

Anyway, great post. Very thought-provoking.

I don't see how the U.S. could pull out of Iraq nor Canada out of Afghanistan without that causing a very serious threat on our own home soil (even worse than it is now).

Just my thoughts.

Ellie said...

I thin kthat Iran is too close to Iraq for us to just leave. But now we are in a political election campaign year, so you will see people who orignally support the Pres. pull that support. Especially Democrats. I don't like Bush, haven't since his second term, but I voted for him b/c my brother was in Iraq. You pull out now and you will destroy many lives..then other countries will go running to the UN b/c we pulled out. Damned if you do damned if you don't at this point and that is what I think the President has come to realize so he is doing what HE thinks is best. The UN never supported the invasion of Iraq in the first place, but I think it is funny how they are all up in it now and would be even more IN it if we pulled out.

I just hope that the next President will not be hot headed and feel pressure about the Iraq situation. I want who ever takes over to take their time in considering every aspect. Though American has lost some of it's patience, it would be better to have some than not. No more disasters...please. And I certainly don't want a draft.

Jay said...

Thats a hard one Ellie,
Its obvious that to stay there is inflammatory to the Iraqi's and at the same time if they leave, they are handing it over to insurgents.

I can't see how they can stay there. Every casualty is perceived to be on the Americans shoulders. Its gonna continue to add up, dargging the US deeper. I say leave ASAP and hope that things pan out like they did with vietnam who are now joining the rest of the world.

This entire mess would have been avoidable had the Republicans not been elected at all. Hindsight is 20/20. We avoided that mess here in Canada but as you know we are bogged down in Afganistan which originally was US led but left few there to go to Iraq. That was the big mistake as Canadians cannot deal with Afganistan and the risk is that it will be another Iraq. The US should not have moved to Iraq while still fighting Afganistan.

Its why here in Canada we are looking for change (after only a year) with regard to Stephen Harper who is doing to us what George did to the the US. Committing us to something thats not attainable.

I hope a draft does not occur that would be tragic. So much death. Every month in Iraq more people are dying than did in the 9/11 attacks.

All I can suggest is that people will learn lessons from this and vote appropriately.

I wouldn't be too concerned with Iran, I have met many people in University from there. From what I gather, the governement doesn't and really never has represented the views of the population which is very moderate. I doubt it could ever amount to much of a problem. Getting involved and getting them on your side to help in Iraq I believe would create a much safer future for everyone. You don't have to agree with other countries on what they do, just an understanding of peace. Remember when the Soviet Union was public enemy number 1?

RWA said...

Staying there is not "inflammatory" to the Iraqis in general - just to some of the ones they choose to talk to in the media.

I have several friends in active duty over there. You do not hear the stories about the groups of people who come running to them, thanking them for getting them out from under Saddam's dictatorship.

It is a mess - but it will get better.

Vietnam is better - but it's more than 30 years later. With the situation as it is in the Middle East, Iraq cannot be left for the likes of Syria, Iran and others to come in and take advantage of their current state. That would be the biggest mistake of all.

Ellie said...

Oh Jay...Dear Dear lovable Jay...

I don't think that it has to do with Republicans being elected. Thing is the majority of the Democrats agreed with the decision to invade. Hillary Clinton has not back tracked and said she didn' t support it b/c she knows she did and she is running for president. Thing is, you had a choice in the beginning, Al Gore, or George Bush...that was an easy one! Then you had John Kerry, and George Bush. Based on recent comments made by John Kerry, I am glad I voted republican. My major reasoning, you don't change presidents in a time of war, especially since at the time my brother was there. When the elections come around, you will see republicans tread lightly with caution regarding the war. But Democrats, if one gets in, they will pull out right away and it will be a mess. I am not far right or left, sometimes I get caught in the middle.

Ellie said...

oooh hoo! I must post pictures now RWA...under the original post, this is a pic that my brother took when he was there!

Ellie said...

oooh hoo! I must post pictures now RWA...under the original post, this is a pic that my brother took when he was there!

RWA said...

I know you are proud of your brother. I am too - as I am all of our military men and women (a lesson that Mr. Kerry and others could learn for sure).

Ellie said...

Kerry learn a lesson... that will be the day! lol!

Hypersonic said...

Why are you worried about Iran!? If the "coalition" forces weren't parked next door, they probably wouldn't be making so many loud and aggressive noises. As for the people running out and thanking the troops...what about the videos of troops taunting kids with bottles of water? Like making them runa after the armoured vehicle laughing and joking. This is not an isolated incident and not how an occupying force should treat the populace of a country.
( just trying to keep some balance here)

e.Craig said...

I know that people have very strong views on both sides of this issue. I suspect that the sectarian violence in Iraq will continue even when the US eventually does pull out.

The biased media reports only what supports their views, so I suspect we don't have a correct view of everything. Nevertheless, the insurgent attacks, most aimed at the citizens, are factual and disheartening.

Whether or not we should have attacked Iraq is moot at this point. While I was encouraged that Saddam's regime was toppled so quickly, I felt that this would be a protracted military campaign even before Bush and Rumsfeld warned us that it would be.

If anyone doubts the goal of the muslim terrorists, one need only look back at the history of Islam. Also, the question remains that once a strong representative government and well trained police and military forces are in place, will the various factions be willing to sit at the negotiating table to work out their differences? I, personally, have some strong doubts. Still, I suspect for that to have any chance of being successful we are looking at years, not months, of continued military presence in the region.

Ellie said...

Craig, This is NOT a bashing Democrat comment, but I fear, that if Democrats get in, they will pull out of Iraq way too soon. I can't wait to see what the next political election brings. I think that it will be far interesting than the last. It's sad though that any Republican cantidate is going to have some serious damage control to deal with. I think you might see a Republican cantidate actually state what he didn't like about this past administration instead of fully supporting it. I will be sure to cast my vote and tune into every election debate.'s funny, I really have turned into my parents!!!
Should I seek therapy

Rhianna said...

Leaving Iraq proves we haven't got the guts, or chihones to finish the job. Anyone that can kid themselves into thinking this won't egg terrorists on is delusional and suicidal. We haven't had another attack on US soil since before Iraq. WHY? I'd say it's because we're keeping them busy on THEIR home turf - just the way I like it. If they've got to die, and they want to use their breeders and spawn as "human shields" let them.

Bush made quite clear this was NOT a short war. He's repeated it again and again. We're at 3000 dead at almost 4 years of holding a country. IF the Iraqis hated us, and wanted us gone, as badly as the 'news' says they do, we'd have far, FAR more dead and we'd have left long ago. 150,000 US troops can NOT hold a country of 26 MILLION+ inhabitants (via CIA factbook - est. July 2006 population.

I don't like, or love Bush. I voted for him twice as President and once as Governor of TEXAS, I found him the best man available - not the best for the job. But I won't allow people to trash the US military and it's work in Iraq. The news shouts that 25 died in Iraq today - how many died in NYC or LA today? I can damn near guarentee it was FAR more than that.

California violent crime rates per year, New York violent crime rates per year. Neither of those are the third world, which Iraq is inarguably a part of. They have good medical, good schools, good job prospects, they're AMERICAN cities and their crime rate is astronomical.

And for the record, WWII was from 01 Sept 1939-09 Sept 1945 (from Hitler's invasion of Poland to Japan's surrender in mainland China). We were in it for far less time, but that doesn't mean the British, the French, the Aussies, etc didn't bleed themselves dry in the time we were playin' tiddlywinks in DC.

We stay 'til the job is done. NOT staying will lead to another Vietnam - and the killing fields of the Khmer Rouge will look tame by comparison...

e.Craig said...

LOL, Ellie. :-) I believe I've turned into my father. I was much smarter than he when I was a young man. But, I have progressively become dumber as the years have ticked by.

Ellie said...

My statistic for WWII might have been wrong, but your comments seem to be the sentiment. Please don't think that my post was Anti Iraq or Troops. Far from it. My point was that time doesn't finish a war...along the thread it seems that the majority agrees that we can't pull out now. As far as Bush.... same thing...lesser of the two evils as far as I am concerned. I would have feared for the US had Gore been there on 911.

Thank you Rhianna for your passionate post!

Ellie said...

Hypersonic, while you are entitled to your opinion...I don't agree with you at all. While there are some sick people out there, I don't doubt that the good outway the bad. There is your balance.

Ellie said... changed your stuff around..I like it!

RWA said...

hypersonic, you're referring to isolated incidents - and the media loves to show us the bad things going on over there.

Talk to people who are there. Talk to people who have been there. The good far outweighs the bad - but you don't hear much of anything about the good.

And, Iran is a threat. Period.

Hypersonic said...

The fact that The US and the UK entered Iraq in the first ploace is pretty weird. I mean, it's been proven time and again that there were no WMDs, never were and probably never would have been. Historically the middle-east ( and here I include Palestine as well) has always been a hotbed of violence, long before the moslem faith exoisted, in-fact the different tribes and sects within Judaism did a pretty good job all by themselves ( the Samaritans were Jews as were the Philistines and they turn up in the bible several times as opponents to the line of David) so have the Persians ( who are now Iraqis and Iranians)and all the different semitic peoples of that region. Basically George W and his lapdog Boney Toney wanted a military power base in the area and thought that iran would be a pushover. Iraq has every right to question the presence of foreigners next door, what the hell has an army from the other side of the world got to do with anything? Why didn't they invade Syria or Lybia? I mean they have always been bases for terrorist activity, Iran has never. This has been proved by both the CIA and MI6, finish what job Rhianna? the annihalation of a whole population just because we can? Sound familiar to me does that.

Hypersonic said...

BTW ellie: I like it too, and thank you for allowing me to air my views. I know you screen them and you have "cojones" and a fair mind. All those and beauty! lol

Ellie said...

Something all my readers need to know Hype Beams... I only screen the spam...any other comment gets published always. No matter how against my views they may be...or how rude. If they are rude, I will just send my bloggie buddies to attack! he he heeee

But I love you stopping tickles me pink b/c you are the one that got me interested in blogging in the first place!